The Hotshot Up Foundation With Anthony Powers

Welcome to another episode of The Anchor Point Podcast! In today's episode, we have special guest, Anthony Powers, a former hotshot hailing from Southern California. He has risen through the ranks to become a Captain with the Forest Service, and is now serving as a firefighter for the city of Burbank, CA. Anthony is also the President of the non-profit organization, Hotshot Up, which is dedicated to supporting firefighters who have lost their lives in the line of duty. Join us as we delve into Anthony's remarkable journey of service and learn more about Hotshot Up's mission and impact.

Anthony Powers is a true Southern California native, born and raised in the region. His passion for firefighting started early on, and he pursued it with unwavering determination. Anthony's career spans across the Angeles National Forest, where he honed his firefighting expertise, and now he serves as a firefighter for the city of Burbank, CA, a role he took on in 2020.

In addition to his role as a firefighter, Anthony is also the President of Hotshot Up, a non-profit organization with a noble mission. Hotshot Up is dedicated to supporting firefighters who have lost their lives in the line of duty, particularly those who have fallen while battling wildfires. The organization was officially established as a non-profit in December 2020, but its roots trace back to 2017 when it was founded as the Dalton Hotshots.

Hotshot Up's mission is to provide support, assistance, and resources to the families and loved ones of fallen firefighters. They aim to offer financial and practical support during the difficult times following the loss of a firefighter in the line of duty. The organization understands the unique challenges faced by the firefighting community and seeks to alleviate some of the burdens through their programs and initiatives.

Anthony is grateful for the unwavering support of his family and everyone who believes in Hotshot Up's mission. He acknowledges the contributions of his team and partners who have worked tirelessly to make a positive difference in the lives of fallen firefighters' families. Their combined efforts and dedication have made Hotshot Up a formidable force in supporting the firefighting community.

Anthony's journey from being a So Cal hotshot to becoming a firefighter and President of Hotshot Up is pretty rad. His passion for firefighting and commitment to serving the public and the fire community is commendable. Hotshot Up's mission to support families who have experienced the tragedy of an LODD is making a meaningful impact, and Anthony is grateful for the support he has received.

If you want to find out more about the Hotshot Up Foundation. Or sign up for the annual volleyball tournament and fundraiser on April 15th, 2023 - Check out the link below!

https://www.hotshotup.com/team-registration

Thank you for joining us in this episode of The Anchor Point Podcast. And remember to show your support to Hotshot Up and the firefighting community. Stay tuned for more inspiring stories and news from the Wildland fire community, BY the Wildland community!

You guys know the drill…

Stay safe, stay savage... Peace!

The Anchor Point Podcast is supported by the following amazing folks:

Mystery Ranch

Need badass packs? Then look no further than Mystery Ranch!

https://www.mysteryranch.com

Hotshot Brewery

Wanna pick up our Anchor Point Podcast merch or need killer coffee? Hit up Hotshot Brewery!!!

https://www.hotshotbrewing.com

Not sponsors of The Anchor Point Podcast, but great organizations:

The Wildland Firefighter Foundation

And, as always, please consider supporting this great nonprofit organization - The Wildland Firefighter Foundation!

https://wffoundation.org

The A.W.E.

Wanna get some history and knowledge on Wildland Fire? Hit up The Smokey Generation!

http://wildfire-experience.org

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Listen to the podcast here

The Hotshot Up Foundation With Anthony Powers

What's going on, ladies and gentlemen? Welcome back. This episode is brought to you by MYSTERY RANCH, Built for the Mission. If you haven't been rocking a MYSTERY RANCH Fireline Pack for your career, that sucks to be you. MYSTERY RANCH makes arguably the best, the most comfortable, and the most bitching warranty in the fire game for their fire packs. You better go over there and switch up your game. Go over to www.MysteryRanch.com to check them out and give a couple of elbows to some folks. Tell them to get the right gear for the job.

Other than that, MYSTERY RANCH is built off of the boots on the ground and they actually give a shit. The reason why I say that is because they take input and advice. Dana Gleason, who founded Mystery Ranch, went down to South Ops. He tied in with a couple of crews down there and developed what pack you are probably wearing on your back that you all know and love, aka the Hotshot Pack.

Other than that, they do a bunch of other stuff for the community like the Backbone Series Scholarships. They're pretty cool. They're giving out $1,000 scholarships to anybody who wants to tell a story of wildland fire and what they do online. It's pretty awesome. They are doing a closing here pretty soon. It's rapidly approaching. May 31st is going to be the deadline to get your story submitted into MYSTERY RANCH's Backbone Series. If you want to find out more or submit your story, go over to www.MysteryRanch.com and check it out.

We have our coffee sponsor because we all know that The Anchor Point Podcast can't come to you unless it's done in a very caffeinated state. The people that I rely on for my caffeination are none other than Hotshot Brewery. It's kickass coffee for a kickass cause. A portion of the proceeds will always go back to the Wildland Firefighter Foundation and some other causes that they're working on. There might be some other stuff in the works there. If you want the best in kickass coffee for kickass causes, go over to www.HotshotBrewery.com. It doesn't stop there. You can go over there and get your full line of Wildland Firefighter-themed apparel and all of the tools of the trade to get your mornings started off right. Go check them out.

Of course, I got to give a quick little shout-out to my buddy Booze over at the A.S.S. Movement. That stands for the Anti Surface Shitting Movement. My homie is a firefighter up there in AK and he's doing the good deed of spreading and bearing propaganda across the globe. I don’t know about everybody out there that's tuning in, but I absolutely hate it when I see a surface turd or someone doesn't clean up their wreckage and left behind their human excrement. It's disgusting and that needs to stop.

Not only is he one of my very close homies and we work together on some other projects but he also got a good mission. It all started from humble beginnings which you can ask him all about. Anyways, if you head over to www.TheFireWild.com, check out the A.S.S. Movement, and use the code ANCHORPOINTASS10 at checkout, you can save 10% off your entire order through the A.S.S. Movement. Go check them out. That is www.TheFireWild.com/The-A-S-S-Movement.

Last but not least, I would like to give a little shout-out to my homie Bethany over at the AWE, the American Wildfire Experience, also known as The Smokey Generation. You probably heard of it because they are paying it back for the people that are paying it forward. What do I mean by this? The folks that are telling the story of wildland fire. I don't know if you've heard, but you should have by now if you ever tuned in to any of these episodes.

The Smokey Generation has given out $500 grants for those folks in the field that are telling the story of wildland fire. It's an awesome cause, and it's only bettering the boots on the ground. If you want to find out more, go over to www.WildfireExperience.org and check it out. There are a ton of stories and content. Some of these stories are dating even back to the 1940s. It's like an oral history or an oral storytelling project, and it's all cataloged over at the American Wildfire Experience. If you want to check it out and find out more, go over to www.WildfireExperience.org and check it out.

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What’s going on, ladies and gentlemen? Welcome back. I hope everybody is doing well and I hope everybody is gearing up for the season. It’s not even shoulder season. Region 3 is already heating up, and then you got a bunch of stuff going on in the Midwest, the East, and all over the place. What the hell is going on? Are we having a start to 2022 where everything is popping off what seems to be pretty early? Is it going to be a banger of a season or is it going to peter out like in 2022? I don't know. Maybe we'll have somebody from predictive services on the show to tell us what the crystal ball foretells. I do hope that everybody is doing well. I hope everybody is in shape and ready for this season. I hope everybody had a good winter.

Apologies for the lack of presence. There are going to be some massive overhauls and updates for The Anchor Point and all of its little projects. I think you're going to enjoy a lot of them. There's going to be some pretty cool stuff. Maybe a Wikipedia, maybe a forum, maybe some other stuff like some information sharing, hot list kind of update stuff. Big stuff is happening. It's pretty cool. Anyway, let's get onto it with this episode.

In the episode, we are going to have Anthony Powers. He's one of the Co-Founders of The Hotshot Up Foundation. It's a nonprofit organization. It's 501(c)(3). Their mission is to support the families of firefighters who have fallen in the line of duty. It is an awesome organization. They do a kickass volleyball tournament every year. If you want to go and check out this volleyball tournament, have a good time, and support a good cause, go over to www.HotshotUp.com so you can sign up for the 2023 Hotshot Up Volleyball Tournament. We got Anthony Powers on the show. Without further ado, I'd like to introduce my guest and awesome human, Mr. Anthony Powers. Welcome to The Anchor Point.

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What's going on, ladies and gentlemen? Welcome back to another episode of The Anchor Point. I've got Anthony Powers from the Hotshot Up nonprofit organization. What's going on?

What's up? How are you?

I’m fine and dandy. I was getting over the sickness that my kids constantly pass around the house. It sucks. As soon as they hit daycare, it's game over as far as trying to remain healthy. If there’s a month that I'm not sick, it's like a miracle.

I feel you. I woke up one morning with a little scratchy throat, and so I'm feeling the effects of that now. We're cutting it up a little bit about that. It's hard to get away from that when they're constantly bringing home all their little germs. What can you do?

Just roll with the punches. I'm glad to have you on the show. It's been a hot minute. We've been trying to set this thing up for a hell of a long time. It’s probably six months. Maybe even more.

I think longer. We tried in 2022, and it didn't pan out. We tried again earlier in 2023, but I'm glad to finally be able to do it. It almost didn't happen again. The kids are having a meltdown. It's rad when you got a spouse that can handle that, so she got them out of the house. It wasn't smooth, but it happened finally. It's quiet. We'll be able to knock this out. I thank her for that, for sure.

I feel you on the kids. It's difficult at times trying to balance work and kids. It gets pretty difficult. Especially if you have to be in a quiet place if you're recording. I'm like, "Sorry, honey. Thanks for taking the kids, but I got to record."

You got to have to soundproof your room. They do a lot. I can't stress it enough, but to be able to have a job in emergency services and be gone all the time definitely has its effects on home life. For all those fire girlfriends, fire wives, fire moms, or any type of emergency services, they hold it down. They deserve a lot of acknowledgment for that. It's a lifestyle that I'm not sure everybody understands.

All those fire girlfriends, fire wives, fire moms, and any type of emergency services deserve a lot of acknowledgment.

Not a lot of people can handle it. It takes a special individual to put up with first-responder bullshit, in my opinion. That's another thing too. The first responder is like, "You're a first responder. It must be so hard. You must carry a heavy load.” You do, but the people that are holding it down and carrying arguably the heaviest load out of that group of folks are the people back at home taking care of the kids and holding all the stuff together while the first responder is at work. That's a burden to bear.

They are unsung heroes. The ones in the shadows. As they say, there's always the better half. Without them, people wouldn't be able to do what they do. That's a good start to this. Hats off to the wives and moms. Thank you for allowing guys like us to do what we do.

A shout-out to those folks that can put up with our crap. That's for sure. Tell us about yourself. You were a hotshot originally, and you moved into structure. We talked about this a little bit off-camera and off-record. Let's dive back right into it and get a little background on you, what you've created, and what you've done. Take it away.

I'm born and raised in Southern California. San Fernando Valley, West Hills, California. I got into firefighting when I was about nineteen. I took some classes at Valley College and joined a Type 2 crew, which was Crew 70 Monarchs. It's a weird full circle. I was explaining that to you earlier. I did a season on that crew for a season with a couple of my best friends from high school. We all went to EMT school together at West Valley Occupational.

We had an older friend that we all knew from the neighborhood that got into wildland firefighting and told me about it. He was a buddy of mine. I hadn't seen him all summer surfing. When I ran into him, I was like, "Where have you been at?" The next thing you know, he put us on that path. "This is what I'm doing. You guys would love it. You should check it out." The next thing you know, we're hiking hills with our local hills in the valley and racing up the mountain together. It all fell into place.

We got on that crew and fell in love with it. We had some extremely good leaders on that crew that showed us what right looked like and drove home the importance of being a good person and making good decisions. It gave me some direction as to what I wanted to do. The next year, I got picked up on the Angeles hotshot crew, Bear Divide. I worked there for seven years and then made the jump to Dalton as a squad leader. I was promoted to the rank of captain.

I left in 2020 to work for Burbank Fire Department. I was given the opportunity and I took it. That was a hard decision to make. I was ready for a change professionally. I was ready for a change in my home life. Being a career hotshot, it was tough to leave because I loved that job. In the midst of all that timeline, you get married and you have kids. I started realizing that I was spending a lot more time on cold pieces of line and missing important things. I felt that it was my turn to carry that other burden that my family had been carrying with me being gone all the time. I was at least trying to make a change so that I could start carrying some of that load and not be the one that's gone all the time. I still am gone but I'm a lot closer to home. It's twenty minutes away from where I live.

That’s better than halfway across the country.

You spend half a lifetime serving your nation and your nation's communities, protecting them from catastrophic fire and all these different things, and doing your job for public lands and everything else. It was great. I wouldn't change anything on the path that I chose. As a matter of fact, I miss it a lot because of all the good things that came of it. Now, I got to serve the community more locally and have a different impact. A lot of the stuff that came from the hotshots carries right over into what I'm doing now. It's just a different job.

You're still putting your foot in the block.

I got to do that still. I'm very fortunate to be able to do that. It's weird now because like I was telling you, being able to now take the crew out, and remembering where I came from starting on that Type 2 crew. I'm now mobilizing with that crew, taking them out as a crew boss, seeing myself in those folks, trying to provide them with good direction and help them achieve their goals. You can't make that up. It's a weird full-circle thing. I'll be doing it this year potentially, depending on how the season goes with a buddy that started on that crew with me. She's a good friend of mine from junior high. It's crazy.

This is so similar to the end of my fire career. It's wild.

I feel very fortunate.

There's something special about that full-circle scenario. It's crazy. Things happen for a reason. I'm not a believer in coincidence. Things happen for a reason. That's the kind of person I am. A similar thing happened to me at the end of my fire career. I started my career in Doyle, California, which is in the middle of nowhere outside of Susanville. It's in between Reno and Susanville. I love that station.

I know where Doyle is. It is in the middle of nowhere.

It’s in the middle of nowhere for most but then again, I've been at way more remote duty stations like Powers, Oregon. It's a town of 67 people. I started my career there. I messed around. I did the apprenticeship program. I went and did hell attack stuff and hotshot stuff. It comes all the way full circle back to where both me and my buddy started our careers at Doyle Station. He's the captain and I'm the assistant. We have our own crew. It was awesome. It was a great time.

You did bring up something important there about the work-family balance, being a hotshot, and then trying to balance all that family stuff like having kids, getting married, and all of the life things. I will say that being a hotshot, a Federal wildland firefighter, a contractor, or a state wildland firefighter, in general, is super tough on families. Especially when you get to that point where you are married, you have kids, you got the dogs to take care of, and all that stuff.

Sometimes, like a lot of people, they have to make that decision. You and I are both those people that had to make that decision to get out of the game and go do something else. That whole climate and that whole career in the Fed service made us who we are now to some degree. What was the ultimate deciding factor for you to switch it up? Was it the family?

It was a lot of things. It was a lot to do with the family. I always knew that I would regret it if I didn't at least try to make it happen. I lived with regret about things. Hindsight is always 20/20. At the end of the day, if I did try and I didn't make it happen, I would have been content with ending my career as a hotshot or wherever I would have ended up. I would have been completely content. I would have been able to say, "I gave it a shot." The reason for that was to try to have a better-balanced home life for work and family.

I gave it a shot, and then the opportunity was there. It's something that I always wanted to do. You get that bug and you start getting involved with hotshots. If you do it and you do it for as long as I did, unless you love it, why are you there? It can be a pretty miserable place to be sometimes. The job is not glamorous, but you get immersed in that line of work. If you're not there for what that occupation has to offer, then you're not there for the money, obviously.

Hotshot Up: Being in HotShot is not a glamorous job. If you're not there for what that occupation has to offer, if you don’t love it, then why are you there?

To sum that up, when it was time and that opportunity was presented to me, I was trying pretty hard. Why try so hard to do something when you're given the opportunity and you don't go for it? That's ultimately what I'm talking about with my wife and things like that. She's like, "I want to make sure that you're going to be happy doing this.” There was some risk with that. Ultimately, you could get hurt. You could not pass. There's some leeway there. As a career employee with the Federal agency, you got three years for your quals. I tried to leave on the best terms possible with the folks that I worked with because there are relationships there.

That's what this whole organization and fire service is about. It's about relationships. The people that have been in it long enough and the people that are coming into it will soon find out that that's what it's all about. It's about the people. When I did make that move, it wasn't easy. It's like you're taking a hockey player and telling them, "You might have been good at hockey, but now you need to go play golf." I don't know if that's a great analogy or comparison.

There's a lot to learn. It’s like, "I can do this." The firefighting part isn't necessarily the most difficult thing to figure out. It burns and you put it out. You throw dirt, spray water, and hot shotting. In structure firefighting, there are other complexities to it. The pace is much different too, which was hard for me to adjust to because everything is like IA. Everything is super-fast. It has to do with timing and things like that. At first, I was like, "These guys are crazy." When they look at some of the stuff that we would do, they'd be like, "Those guys are crazy." You got good people in positions that are good at their jobs and you got to build that trust. There are guys that you'll work with throughout your career that you're like, "That guy's so dialed and he's solid." That's not a good combination for you as an individual.

You're trying to respect the other person. They don't work well together or whatever it is. Personally, I always try to look at the team organization because that's what I was brought up in for so long. I just realize that everybody has something to bring to the table. Not everybody is always going to have all the answers. Not everybody is always going to make the right calls, but that's why we're there as a team to back each other up and get through whatever that is. Whatever it is you guys are dealt with, just jump in, engage, and have a good goal and state. You'll get out all right, but just know that at the end of the day, sometimes you won't. You can do everything right and things can still go wrong. We can get into that later now or whenever. When things do go wrong, that sucks because that's the business that we're in.

Sometimes, you do everything right and things can still go wrong.

Being a first responder, it doesn't matter if you're wildland, structure, paramedic, or LEO, whenever you're called to something, usually, it's somebody's worst day. There's obviously an emergency or else you wouldn't be there in the first place. Let's continue down with that topic that you brought up there. Let's get into that because that's a deep subject.

Whether it happens to you or somebody personal in your unit, department, or agency, it affects everybody. It's a difficult thing to talk about. When bad things happen, it's easy to be like, "What were they doing? They should have never been there." The longer you stay in the business of what these first responders do, there are risks associated with everything that you do. There's a risk walking out of your house every day. Even in your house, you can be robbed. That's something that has been going on in our area more recently. That's a crazy thing to think about when I leave. It's like, "Me and my family are going to be all right." The world is not a very nice place.

There's a risk of walking out of your house every day, leaving your house. The world is not a very nice place.

Being a father now and having to be responsible for children, it's not that you worry about it happening every day. You think about everything that's going on in our world with school shootings and all this crazy stuff. You see it on the news and it's almost like it happens so often now. You don't even have the shock factor anymore. Not to sound insensitive to that, but that's the world we're living in these days. When those things happen, it's always a reminder. I was in Vegas the other day for a union thing. We're landing at the airport and we're looking at the parking lot of that mass shooting that happened from the Mandalay Bay concert. It's crazy.

You then think about the job of the police and the things that people say about them. I feel for them all the time. There are going to be bad apples in anything and sometimes people make mistakes. Whether it was malicious intent or whatever, that's on that individual. That's at least how I try to look at these things. It's sad that we're in a place in society where we can't look out for one another when those things happen. That's unfortunate, but it sucks when bad things happen with people that you work with because they're not just coworkers. They talk about your fire family or your work family. I know that you have your own personal family, but these are people that you grow to know.

It goes back to those relationships. It sucks when they're gone. A good family friend of mine just lost their father a couple of weeks ago. I was late. I wasn't able to be there for the service, but I showed up after with my kids because my kid had a baseball game. I found myself looking for that person when I'm there. It's like I'm here for him. Once that person is gone, they're gone. You don't get any of that time back and you see what the family is going through and all that.

When it happens in the fire service, it's easy to have those old feelings come back when maybe a friend of yours that you knew died doing what they love. It doesn't even have to happen on the job, but when it does happen on the job, it's a reality check that we work in a very dangerous profession. Even though you try to do everything right and you try to manage the risk and mitigate the hazards that are out there, you're never going to be safe.

For those folks that think that you will be safe, I'd love to have a couple of beers with those people, talk with them, and have them convince me that firefighting in any regime, wildland, or structure, is a safe environment to operate in. It isn't. It's a very violent and unpredictable arena of work. We are asked to operate in that, put all these different plugs of things to make sense of it all, go out and carry forth a mission, accomplish that mission the most efficient way possible, and be as safe as possible. Anybody that has been in the game knows that it's not a safe environment. It’s not a safe job. It's dangerous.

At the same time, you become vehement. Maybe not when you're fresh in the game. When you're in that first through third, even arguably a fifth-year firefighter, you're still almost delusional about how risky this job is. You come to a point where you become vehemently aware of how dangerous it is. At the same time, it's invigorating. That's the stuff that drives that kind of personality type. We love it, as risky as it is. How else do you explain it besides adrenaline addiction?

That's what makes it fun. You try to do everything and put the benefit of operations to be successful. Nobody wants to go in and put in all this work to be unsuccessful. I don't like doing that. I like doing things the right way.

I don't think anybody does.

If you don't thrive in those situations, then you won't be successful. I guess that's one way to look at it. On the other hand, there are always the uncontrollable things that you never saw coming or you had no control over, and that's nobody's fault. The bad thing happens and then you're stuck having to deal with that situation, and seeing that happen sucks. You just try to do the best you can with what you got.

Hotshot Up: There are always uncontrollable things that you never see coming. And that's nobody's fault. You're stuck having to deal with that situation and seeing that happen sucks. And you just try to do the best you can with what you got.

It's hard. You're sitting there witnessing the horrors of humanity and sometimes it's hard to deal with. Especially when it's those uncontrollable things, and you're trying to do everything to mitigate or transfer that risk or move it around or take away every hazard. Shit happens at the end of the day sometimes.

It's funny we get into conversations about risk transfer, shared risk, and all these different things. Some of those terms rub me the wrong way because, at the end of the day, it's nothing. You got command and control. We talk leadership stuff or whatever. The people that are in command are not in control at all. They make decisions, they set objectives, and they tell people to go out and carry forth those things, but they're not in control of what happens, and then something changes. How often does that message not get communicated back to those folks that are in command and at the levels that it needs to? That's where you're going to have those mishaps. Why didn't you get that logistics or whatever it is?

That's a fickle system. It seems like you're always behind the curve on the ever-expanding incident. The rapid fire, for example. They're burning faster and getting larger. In the last fire, I was on a division on a fire that was 17 miles. I remember the map was a 17-mile drive from one end to the other. That was not as direct as the crow flies. It took me 35 minutes to get to the other side to get around through the city. How am I supposed to be in control of all these different little subdivisions and things that are going on? I'm not in control. Not at all.

It's like a thought-of-war mentality. You just can't keep up with it.

That was day one. It's like, "Sure. I'll help you guys out.” I go in there and work with a trainee who was going to go out there and deal with it by himself. It's like, "There's only one way for us to deal with this. We're going to split it up. You take this side and I'll take this side." It was his first day there too. It's like, "I don't know what we have. Who's been here yesterday?" I was asking the folks in the morning. Thankfully, there were some guys that were there where I could get some kind of, "Where can we meet where we can make sense of what's going on? Let's go meet there. Let's get out of this ICP." Fire is rolling down the hill. I'd turn around and go, "That's our division. We should get out there and figure this out.”

We should probably go engage.

It was a short-lived thing. You then go out there, you try to make sense of everything, and you try to make good decisions to have the best outcome possible. We're good at it. We're good at doing that, but you got to build those rapid trust relationships. Trust is hard. It's an implicit trust you'll help people talk about. Do you really trust that person? Probably not. Trust but validate or whatever, and then make sense of it. You then go out, and then you accomplish some things together, and you get the job done. That's the whole goal there. Maybe not trust everybody.

Blind faith is dangerous.

We know it's not a perfect world, but go out there and realize the people that are there don't build the barriers. They don't come across as that freaking cocky person that's not approachable. I've been that guy.

Don't be an asshole, in general.

When I was younger in my career, three years on a hotshot crew, I thought I knew everything, and being a jerk to people. That was culture earlier. I was in that transitional phase of hotshot crews. Crews didn't talk to each other, but then it's like, "Wait a minute. That guy is cool. I'm going to go say hi to that person." That wasn't even a thing on my crews, but there was that going on still.

That old-school mentality?

Yeah. It's in a much better place now. You see they overhead their buddies and they're saying hi. That's a good thing. We got to keep that going.

That's a good thing though. When did you start your fire career?

In 2004.

You're about the same generation of firefighters that I am. I started in 2009. I think that you and I were in that unique timeframe with wildland firefighting. You got to see the tail end of the old school and that transition into what we have now. Some of it is good. Some of it is bad. Some of it is indifferent, but it definitely changed. A lot of things have changed. It's not just crew mentality and the stuff that we're talking about here with attitudes, reducing the toxic environment, and the chest pounding, and all that bullshit, honestly.

It even includes fire behavior and fuels. I was talking to Ron Bollier a couple of episodes ago. He was saying, "The fire regime has changed so dramatically from when I was a hotshot. I was the captain and the superintendent. Nowadays, what I'm seeing now is night-and-day different." I don't know if you've seen a change in that field regime as well because I know you've seen the change in operations and people. I've seen pretty dramatic changes in fire behavior as well.

I remember when Ron had Fulton. We worked a lot with Fulton on the LP. I can think back to fires in their neck of the woods up in Inyokern and LP fires. Those back then were mega-fires. Think of the Zaca, the Zaca 2, and the day fire that came over. Those were the mid-2000s. Those were all big campaign fires that had major acreage days where fire would blow out. I don't want to say that that was rare because I didn't fight a fire before those ones. At the time, those were the mega-fires. We've never seen things like that happen before in this area. Now, it seems like that's the norm. That new fire behavior is the norm. It's not maybe just that fire regime. That's the term that we're using here.

Fire climate regime, whatever you want to call it, fire behavior.

They're getting bigger and faster, and they become more catastrophic. They're taking it, but then again a lot of communities have encroached into an area that they necessarily weren't before. It's everywhere.

Where are people going to go besides out? That's the whole thing. Everybody dreams of a little slice of heaven in Verdi or in Truckee or wherever.

Take a look out a window on a flight. Just jump on a flight from Northern California to Southern California on a day when there's not a lot of cloud cover. Look at that elevational platform of what an air attack looks like. It's everywhere. There are communities and subdivisions sprinkled all over a very aggressive landscape that loves fire. That's the reality of it. Maybe this canyon that you wouldn't have been so worried about fire ripping through, now we are. There's a lot of value there now in homes and lives. We're trying to protect people's livelihoods. I don't see it getting any better. This year, we've gotten so much rain. I don't know what fire season is going to look like. I don't like making that guess.

Everybody wants to play the crystal ball.

I've had super dry ears. We were talking about it. You're still going to need the starts in the right spots and in the right weather to push that thing around and help it go where it needs to go. It will never be out of a job in the West.

That's 100% certain. It's not uncommon for a fire to go 500,000 acres now, it seems like. That's the part that baffles me. It's freaking gnarly. With these mega-fires coming into the whole picture and how we do business, it's bound for that unforeseen thing to happen. That's unfortunately part of the job like we're talking about earlier. Let's move into your inspiration for why you started Hotshot Up and your motivation behind that. You've seen some of this shit happen firsthand, and you decided to create a nonprofit behind it. That's honorable. It's awesome that you do that. Let's talk about Hotshot Up, what it's all about, and what the whole idea behind it is.

You said a couple of things. I'm the self-proclaimed president of the nonprofit organization Hotshot Up. I didn't start it myself. I've been managing it. I took the ball and ran with it, but it was a collaborative effort back when I was on Dalton. I've talked about this before with some other folks, I'll apologize for the repetition, but for those that haven't heard, 2016 was when we had some friends that lost their homes in the Sand Fire in Angeles. That was a Santa Ana wind-driven fire. It’s like what you said about the mega-fires or the 500,000-acre mega-fire. That's almost like a normal fire now. We're getting those all the time.

It feels like we've adapted that to normalcy now.

The people are dealing with these things. They're being asked to go out and make sense of these things. They don't have the resources to do it maybe. I know that there are a lot less crews that are available. Not to get too far into the weeds on that, back to the Hotshot Up thing, that year was a busy year in SoCal and Sand Fire was a big rip. It basically started on the north end of the Angeles backcountry off the 14 in Soledad Canyon. It ripped over the top of the Santa Clara Divide. It went all the way to the front country within two days up, and over the Crest there. Not the Crest Highway, but the Santa Clara Divide. It then burnt down into Pacoima Canyon.

It was impressive. You watch this thing burn all the way across, and then it got hung up. The onshore winds started surfacing, and this thing did a 180 and turned down the other way. Right underneath, everything burned within a two-hour period, and then it just started racing the other way. It then ripped back up Pacoima Canyon towards Bear Divide in Camp 9. Ultimately, it was Big Bear that was up on top, and they started dragging fire on the top and then brought it back down to Placerita Canyon. You're talking about a very large footprint of some good country on the west end of what they used to call the Los Angeles River Ranger District, which is now called the Gateway of Angeles.

That's where I spent my whole career. On that side and the east end of the Angeles on the Baldy side. Both are impressive places to fight a fire, especially with Santa Ana conditions. During that time, there were some residents that were at Bear Divide and friends of ours that burnt down and they lost it all. Also that same time of year, we had been fighting the fire. We were sistered up with a crew. I want to say it was the season before with Horseshoe Meadow Hotshot. That's when Frankie had his battle with cancer. Ultimately, he ended up passing away. We were on a project one day and we were all bummed out about all these things that were happening. We were like, "Let's do something about it. Let's not just talk about how bummed out this is. Let's try to make something positive out of all this bad."

It is something you do in the fire service. You show up on a bad day. It's not your problem, but you try to help with that problem. You're not going to solve it. In these circumstances, you start feeling for those individuals. Back to those relationships and accomplishing things together. That's what brings that bond closer and that's where we're like, “Let's do something." A bunch of the guys on the crew and this one super cool guy. He works in Alaska now, Anchorage Fire Department. His wife was originally from Alaska. I always used to mess with him and be like, "You're going to go be an Eskimo now." He loves it up there.

Hotshot Up: In the fire service, you show up on a bad day, and you try to help, even though it’s not your problem. You have to you every once in a while.

It's so rad. We actually had an assignment to Alaska in 2018. It's a rad spot. It's way up there. The sun never went down and the mosquitoes were heinous, but I'm not going to complain about our assignment. We had it pretty sweet where we were. He was like, "What about volleyball?" That's something we always used to play at Dalton for our 601 at the end of the week on a Friday, which would've been like a Wednesday, I think. We had Thursday, Friday, and Saturday off on a 410, which was the very sought-after schedule these days, which has been taken away from folks. They're pretty upset about it, but I wish them the best.

People are pissed about that.

That's another thing that was good for the people. I don't know what the agendas are. I don't understand it. Hopefully, whatever it is that they're doing is going to work out for the better. We would play volleyball and maybe have a couple of sodas after hours. We used to call it Slam Jam. Alumni would come and we'd play volleyball. That was always a good way to end the week and blow off some stress. We wouldn't worry about work. Some of us would be grumbling about work or talking about whatever. We play a little bit of volleyball.

We said, "Volleyball, what do we do? Beach volleyball tournament. Let's do it." Here's the guy with great ideas. You were talking about that guy earlier having a good idea about something, and then not being the guy to carry it out. I ended up saying alright. With a couple of other guys, we all jumped on it to make it happen. I keep driving the spike here to keep it going.

That first tournament or event that we had, we had maybe 13 teams or 12 teams. I don't remember. What we wanted to do, we couldn't do because we weren't a nonprofit. That was right in the infancy stages of the US Hotshot Association. I reached out to some friends of mine that were on the board with them and are still currently on the board. It was Superintendent Mike at the time. He was retired but involved with this. Stan Stewart was retired. He's passed since then. I was talking with those guys and telling them what we wanted to do. I talked to quite a few of them. I still do.

They agreed to say, "Yeah. We'll figure it out." Stan wanted to do whatever he could. We were there to say, "We want to put this on. Let's use your organization as the umbrella and the entity that will receive donations. You guys can turn around. Whatever money we raise, we'll raise money and give it to the families that lost their homes, and give it to the family of Frankie to help out with whatever we could to the guys from Horseshoe." That's how we got the ball moving with Hotshot Up. Every year, it was like, "Who are we going to do it for next year?" We're still working with US Hotshot Association, and then Eric Marsh Foundation came in. They wanted to be a part of it, so we brought them in.

COVID then hit, and that took some of the wind out of our sails because we couldn't do this event anymore. That's when I talked with a buddy of mine who is the VP, his name is Ryan. He also worked on Dalton with me. Now he works for Ventura County Fire. That's where this whole thing started. His family helped to fund the whole thing in the first event. They funded the whole thing because his family has a big background in charity. They believed in what we wanted to do. That's how the whole thing was born.

In 2020, because of COVID, that's when we started chatting and decided to turn this into its own nonprofit. The event is one thing, the organization is another. That's our flagship event. Our intentions are to continue to do that provided that people want to still support and people want to come out and play volleyball and have a good time while doing it.

It's like the community component of it.

It's a great place for people to come out. It's at the beach and kicks your shoes off, and guys that want to play volleyball and get all jazzed up on the competition. It's pretty funny. Guys get into it. It's good and healthy competition. In 2022, we had 30 teams. I think we had 36-person teams. In 2023, we're floating. We still got spots open and everybody likes to wait until the last minute. It's April 15th, 2023. If you're coming, sign up. It helps us out with the planning, logistics, and everything. We then get people to sign up last day. I don't like turning people away, but we do have a max capacity of 32. It's at a new location. It used to be at San Buenaventura State Beach, but that place got hammered with the winter storms and the surf. It took out volleyball courts and the sand is all jacked up. We moved the event to Harbor Cove Beach, which is located at 1990 Spinnaker Drive in Ventura.

It's a good spot. The people lease out the courts there. It's private leasing. It's called Rincon Volleyball or Harbor Cove Beach Courts. I tag them in all of our stuff on Instagram. They're giving us an awesome opportunity to have it there. They take care of their courts there pretty well. There's the Harbor Cove Village, which is right across the street. We got some local business that's going to be doing the catering for us some Mexican food and some Greek food, which has been the theme of our event. It's Margarita Villa and a Greek restaurant. I forget the name of it. I don't have it on hand, but they'll be there. The owner is going to be doing the catering. He was all over it. He was stoked to want to do it.

It's going to be a little tighter this year too. I'm interested to see how it's all going to pan out and how many people will come, but it's a good time. I could go down a list of folks that are helping us do that, but I'll do that in a minute. The event's mission is turning this into a nonprofit. It was like, “What are we going to do?” We don't want to be stepping on people's toes with the US Hotshot Association, Eric Marsh, Wildland Firefighter, or anything like that.

We’re now crossing over from the wildland side to the structure firefighting side. I'm like, "Let's do it for just firefighters." Any Line-Of-Duty-Death firefighter can be where we can have an impact and support. How we do that throughout this annual year, we'll choose who we do it for. We do have our normal everyday jobs and family. I can't dedicate my existence to this, although sometimes it feels like I do.

For as much time as I can dedicate to it, we will pick a Line-Of-Duty-Death or several Line-Of-Duty-Death firefighters annually. We will raise funds to support their family to do what they wish with those funds. We're not generating millions of dollars here. It's more than just raising money. It's about that community and bringing people together. When these bad things happen and the agencies come in and they do what they do, if you've ever been to one and I'm sure you have, you see all that's great about the fire service.

When it's all done and it goes away, then we come in like, "We heard about what happened," whether we know that person or not. This year, I didn't know those people. I can talk to you a little bit about how we chose who we chose this year and who those people are. It's also to show that the fire service is filled with good people. We want to go out and do good things. We want to create awareness of these incidents so that people don't forget. Just give those families that day and let them know that we care, and we're going to do something about it.

Hotshot Up: The fire service is filled with good people. And they want to go out and do good things. They want to create awareness of these incidents so that people don't forget.

If we're able to raise a little bit of coin to give them to do what they wish with it while bringing our community together, then that's plenty good. It's all good stuff. It creates an opportunity for fire departments that come out and for them to meet outside of the fire ground. The only stress is what place you're going to get in the volleyball tournament.

That your kids run around.

That's what's good about Harbor Cove too. In the harbor, the water is super mellow there. It's going to be good. It's going to be a little tighter. People might not be able to bring the full get up. It's a good time on the sand where people have fun. It's a good environment for firefighters to bring their families to the beach, take a day, and honor some of our fallen brothers or sisters. We give them and the families that day to show that even though we're in Southern California, we're paying attention. We want to create awareness for those that paid that ultimate sacrifice in a Line-Of-Duty-Death, doing the job that I love, doing the job that they love. Everything that we talked about earlier is the reality of the job that we do. Sometimes people don't come home.

As a side note to when people don't come home, it's organizations like yours that exist for these reasons. They're important because a lot of people don't like to talk about the ugly truths of when people don't come home. Unfortunately, sometimes there's a lot of financial hardship and a lot of burden that's placed on the families. I hate saying it, but death is ridiculously expensive. It stacks up.

We set a goal. We're realistic. We're a small fish in a big pond. I'm still learning a lot about the impacts and everything that the organization can do. We set a goal for each recipient at $10,000. Those funds will get distributed to the families to do as they wish with it. That's the other side of it. It's trying to help out financially, but then the other side of it is showing those families that the community is able to come together and we're doing it in this fun way. We're not just sitting here asking for a handout. We're actually trying to create a good event that's healthy, and a good environment for people to come and enjoy themselves, all while paying our respects and honoring those fallen. That's the goal and the mission of Hotshot Up.

It goes to show you that firefighters are very well-known for taking care of each other. That's for sure.

We do our best. I don't even know what to say about that. We could be doing less.

We could be, and luckily we're not.

There are ways to move the needle for financial stuff. The GoFundMe and all that stuff is a huge platform and it's super easy. You click a button, you send money, and then you did your part. That's awesome. That's the way to move the needle. We're trying to do it on a different level. If the needle is already moved financially, we can raise some coins. We want to create an environment and a community where people feel positive about going and participating in what we create. These events don't just happen. It's a lot of work. That's why we only do this once a year. We're trying to start looking at maybe doing some smaller stuff here and there, but this one is a lot of work. We don't have a lot of people doing the work.

That's why it's tough to do a lot of things. The more that we're around and the longer that we stay in existence and doing what we do, the goal is to have more people take notice and start to utilize us. It's there for everyone now. Now that we are an official 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, it's not mine. It's not my bro's. It's everybody's now. If people want to use it for something, they can use it. That's how we'll help move the needle for things. There are others out there. We all know who they are and what they do. They're awesome. We're another one. We're available for anybody as long as it meets our mission. Our mission is to support Line-Of-Duty-Death firefighters.

Hotshot Up: HotShot’s mission is supporting line of duty death firefighters.

That's the thing. I think that more is a good thing. Organizations like yours and other Firefighter Wellness Fund or Wildland Firefighter Foundation or Eric Marsh. All those folks, there can't be enough of them. Everybody is doing their part. It's just a little different flavor of that part. I love that about the fire community. As far as supporting firefighters in general, that's huge because you're one of the first organizations that come out and say, "This is open to everybody." To me, at least, you guys support everybody. That's another thing that's critical. There are other organizations out there that do it too, but you're the person who said the quiet part out loud. I like that. It's cool.

I don't like lines in the sand unless it's the volleyball lines at our tournament. I'll spend more time tearing down barriers than creating them.

That's the way it should be, honestly. Speaking of barriers too, you personally are involved with other organizations trying to move that needle on a lot of different fronts. If you want to get into NFFE and Grassroots, I'd love to hear about how you guys all came together and tried to move the needle even further.

If we're going to get into that, I want to thank some folks too. Since we started talking about Hotshot Up, I want to let people know who we are doing it for in 2023. Hotshot Up 2023, we are honoring Collin Hagan from Craig Hotshots. Unfortunately, on the big swamp fire in Oregon, he was struck by a tree. He was 27 years old. He perished and died from that tree strike incident. It was a pretty raw deal from what I understand about it. I got an email from his mom and I haven't responded to the email yet. She wanted to donate $150 to pay for a team's meal that was playing because she noticed that we had a Mexican food caterer, and that was Collin's favorite cuisine.

She's like, "I want to do this." She then asked me for a T-shirt. She's like, "I'll pay for it." I'm like, "You don't have to pay for anything. We're doing this for you." If you think about the family aspect of that, they're just good people. Everybody I talk to from Craig and his sister Emily has been my point of contact for this whole thing. They seem super wholesome and down-to-earth good people. When I get an email like that, that tells me that what we're doing is important and it's good. It validates the effort.

That's from Collin Hagan of Craig Hotshots, and this is for them too. Anybody that knew him, that's how we pick who we do it for. It doesn't have to be someone in California or anybody in the nation That's what the volleyball tournament is for. We can do this for other things or for other people. The volleyball tournament will always be in line with that firefighter Line-Of-Duty-Death. That's who we'll choose annually.

The other individual, everybody called him Max. His first name was Vidal Max Fortuna. On January 31st, 2022, he was responding to an outside fire, which I believe was a dumpster fire that was outside of the building. He was forcing entry into the adjacent structure to check for extension where he was shot by the building occupant and owner. He died on the scene. He was 47 years old with a wife and kids. Everybody knew him as a good dude. Both these guys, everybody spoke extremely highly about these people and they're missed. This is a weird one with Stockton.

When I found out that this happened, I was taking a class at Red Helmet Fire Training in Rancho Cucamonga. His friend, everybody knows him. I'm not going to use his whole name, but he's pretty well-known in the structure firefighting world. He showed up that morning. I want to say it was like a day or two after it happened. It just happened, so it might have been the day before it happened. He introduced himself. He was like, "I'm from Stockton." Everybody in the class pulled back and was like, "How are you doing?" I was like, "What happened?" I didn't realize what happened yet.

I looked at my phone later. I read the news article and everything. I was like, "This guy is going through a hard time right now." He was walking home to his hotel. I saw him walking. I pulled up beside him and asked him, "Do you need a lift? I'll give you a lift to where you're going." He told me, "No, I'm good to walk. A good walk would be good for me right now." I'm like, “I get it.”

You immediately knew.

I'm not going to pry into that. My intentions weren't to talk to him about this or anything. It was just to check in on him to see if he needed a ride. I don't know how far he's going to walk. I told him, "What's your number? Give me your phone number and I'll text you later. Maybe we can grab a beer or something." I put myself in his shoes and thought that maybe he could use a buddy to listen. I texted him later and sure enough, he was at the bar. I was like, "Where are you at? I'll come to meet you. We'll grab some dinner." I get there and I sat down next to him. I end up drinking a beer or two with him and getting a burger.

We cut it up for a little bit. I tried to be a friend to him even though I was a stranger. We had some common ground in firefighting, so that was easy. It wasn't until a couple of months later that I reached out to him and told him that I run this nonprofit organization and I'd like to honor his friend. He was like, "I don't know if I'll be able to get anybody to come to play volleyball. Stockton is a pretty hardcore structure fire department, but they burn a lot." You can check out their videos on YouTube or whatever. Those guys are always going to fires. He talked to a couple of his buddies and I got into a group text with them. They were all super stoked about what we were doing and how we were honoring his friend.

For the brothers at Stockton Fire Department and the brothers, family, and sisters from Craig Hotshots, we're doing it for them because we understand what that's like. Knock on wood, thankfully, it hasn't happened to me directly or with someone that I've worked with on the same crew. I do know what it's like to lose a friend in the fire service. The longer you stay in this line of work, the chances of you knowing that person goes up exponentially. It's happened and it affects you on different levels. That's why we do it.

In the fire service, you’ll know what it’s like to lose a friend. The longer you stay in this line of work, the chances of you knowing that person go up exponentially.

I want to thank some people, my family and Ryan's family who have always supported us since day one or some major sponsors in 2023. Someone I'd like to recognize as a legacy sponsor is MYSTERY RANCH. Those guys are rad. Lucas, you're rad, and everything you're doing with Grassroots and everything else. Hats off to you. You're an awesome person. He's a good friend. We never worked with each other directly on the line. If we did, we didn't know each other then. I respect that dude a lot for everything he's doing.

Also, the California Community Foundation is an extension of the Walker family. Ryan Walker is the VP of Ventura County Firefighter who worked with me on Dalton. He's a standup dude. He's rad. He's a good friend of mine. His family is always supporting us year after year in doing this. The Ventura County Firefighter Union 1364 wrote over a check. They do it every year. Another friend of mine who's always supported us, his name's Lalo Ledezma. He's an ex-hotshot. He runs a tree-trimming service called The Tree Service Kings. The guy is the best in the business. He's massive now. It's crazy. He started his own empire with a pickup truck and a chainsaw. He funded his business from hotshotting, and now he's huge. It's crazy to see everything he's done. He's always in support.

Good family friends, the Courys run Thrashin Supply Co, which is motorcycle. They always donate gear and they always sponsor a court. Lance and Courtney Coury, thank you for getting behind us in what we're doing. Marianne Stark runs a tax service for firefighters and first responders. She's located in Laverne. Her husband was an ex-Dalton hotshot and retired Anaheim firefighter. Her whole family and all of her sons are all firefighters for different agencies. She always sponsors the court since day one. Those are our legacy sponsors.

Also, we have Firefighters First Credit Union. That'll be their second year. NFFE, this is their second year sponsoring it. NFFE Wildland and Max Alonzo. He's rad. He comes out every year sponsoring a court and also paying the way for two teams to come in. For guys that have joined his union and are supporting his fight for Federal wildland firefighters in conjunction with Grassroots, the fact that those two guys are working together is awesome. I want to give a shout-out to the Burbank Firefighters Local 778. Earlier in 2023, we did a clay shoot to celebrate 25 years of the Monarch's Type 2 handcrew, which is the one that I started on before I became a hotshot. We were able to raise some good coins to apply to 2023.

We're looking good as far as financing. The whole event is going to be funded. Anybody that comes to our event is putting some money towards the cause. Shout out to them. We also have PREP and DEFEND who are coming in with the sponsorship. It's crazy to see this support. They're going to come in and sponsor the court. PREP and DEFEND is another ex-Texas Canyon hotshot who now works for LA County. He runs his own podcast. You've probably heard of it or seen it. I've been on his podcast before. He's going to be there sharing his business and trying to help people take control of their destiny in the fire service. I'm running down this list here.

A big shout out to the beer folk, Topa Topa. They're with us at everything. They're always stepping up to do things with us. Thank you to them. A newer brewery that's in a Fillmore, Red Engine Brewing. Those guys will be on site as well. We got a lot of folks coming out this year, which is great on the support side. The more people that come out to the event and support it, the better. It's all going to a good cause, and going to aid us in our efforts on supporting our mission for the future.

I want to thank everybody. I thank my family for getting behind me on this thing and supporting it every year. They're always jumping in or making sure it's helping me get things ready to go. They're there. They're helping at the event and holding it down. It's pretty rad to get this kind of support year after year. I can't thank those guys enough. I had to get that out there. Before we moved on, everybody that we've supported in the past and all the crews that come out, I hope you guys continue coming out. We'll see you on April 15th, 2023 at Harbor Cove Beach for the Hotshot Up. It's open to the public. Just come out.

Question for you though. Where can we go to sign up? Where do we find more information about your website and everything?

The website is easy. It's www.HotshotUp.com. We do have some spots open still. Our max capacity is 32 teams. First come, first serve. We got about eighteen signed up right now. If you guys haven't signed up and you're planning to, just get it done. Sign up already. You can pay for the entry fee later. You get into tournament play. Your meals, some beverage tickets, and some sweepstakes giveaway stuff will be given in that entry fee. If you guys want to follow us, it's @Hotshot_Up on Instagram and the same on Facebook. I do a lot of the social media stuff. I do my best to make sure it gets on Facebook too, but I don't have the time to. If there's anybody that wants to join our board and be our social media person, we could use some help.

It sounds like you guys need a little bit of volunteer work. Can we reach out through the website for volunteers?

Yeah. We have our email that's set up there. It's the normal HotShotUp501c3@gmail.com. It's our general inbox. They can also reach out on Instagram. You're looking at them. I'm the guy. People are always asking me, "Who does your Instagram?" I'm like, "I do." They're like, "You're pretty good at it." I'm like, "Really? Thanks, because I have no idea what I'm doing." I just put music and pictures. It seems to work out. The word is getting out enough, but I know there are probably some unturned corners and things that I guess I'm not educated in. I try to be as active as I can, but that's social media. It is what it is.

It's free advertising.

Hater is going to hate. I don’t know how to get that blue check thing. Everybody's like, "You need to get the blue check." I'm like, "I've applied for the blue check and they keep telling me I don’t qualify for it." I don't get it.

They keep doing the same to me. I got one on Twitter, which is weird because that's my least active platform. I don’t know how the hell that works.

It's funny. Life's not all about blue stars.

Social media is not a real place. The internet is not a real place. Luckily, we can host these conversations on the internet, which has a very specific audience.

We're going to put it on the internet when we're done so that people push it and say they like it.

Perfect. Anthony, I appreciate you coming on the show and giving the background story about you, and one part of the brains behind Hotshot Up. I'm looking forward to seeing how your volleyball tournament goes. It's definitely a cool cause and I'm super into it.

One day, I got to get up north to talk with the guys from The Vertical Drop. I've been wanting to go to that thing for the past five years. I would've gone this 2023, but I can't bail on Easter because they're doing it the weekend of Easter. My wife has plans with the family, so I won't be able to make it this year. Hopefully, next year or maybe we can coordinate something for the future. I always want to go hang out with those guys because I know a lot of the north zone crews and stuff go and hang out at that one. I'd love to go run into some of my old friends. I'm sure there are some people that I run into that I haven't seen in a long time. I always feel that that's a good one. Shout out to those guys.

It's a good event. It's fun.

Obviously, you've been there.

I know all those guys. I know a lot of the Silver State and Black Mountain folks. I worked around here in Carson City. It's like my second nature.

You live right up there. That's rad. You asked me earlier when we were talking about Lucas, Grassroots, and NFFE.

At first, I didn't know you were good and tight friends with Max and Luke. Now you're involved loosely with Grassroots and NFFE as well.

It's a weird thing. I talk with Max on the phone and I talk with Lucas on the phone. It's weird in the US Hotshot Association and the way that I try to stay involved with that thing and with everything that they're involved with. It's like, where does Hotshot Up fit in that? I don't know if it's the perfect puzzle piece or if it's even a part of that puzzle. I guess it's the direction of where things are going. I guess my history, work experience, and everything culminated in what I'm doing now with this organization. I believe in everything that they're working for. I want to support it in any way that I can.

Whether that's me helping them get the word out to our small little nucleus of social media followers or whatever, I believe in cultivating and fostering good working relationships. I believe in what they're doing. I think nothing but good will come from it, as far as helping the people. At the end of the day, I'm tired of seeing good friends of mine get the short end of the stick. Financially, in this day and age, we shouldn't be compensating anybody that takes on as much risk in the line of work that they do, and be compensating less than somebody that's flipping burgers. That pisses me off.

It bothers me in the sense that it's a job that is extremely important. It's a very dynamic and unforgiving environment. These are real people that are trying to do in an economy that is not friendly. I feel for those people. Until those things change, it's always going to be difficult for them to advance in their personal lives. I remember I had a chief tell me, "You just got to get out of California." I'm like, "I don't want to get out of California. This is where I want to live. This is where I love working. I don't want to move out of state to somewhere that I don't want to be for the job that I like to do. It's the other way around. I want to work where I want to live and be compensated appropriately for the job that you're doing. It's not just the money side of it either.

It's retirement and mental health. It's a litany of things.

It's all those things and the health of everybody that's affected by that individual. It's like you're gone 6 or 7 months out of the year. That's why there are so many divorces. Let's be real. There are firefighters who are taking their own lives. For what reasons? I don't know but I know that's got to have a little bit of something to do with it. That's something that people don't like talking about and bringing suicide up. That's a real thing and it sucks. I hear about that.

The most profound thing that I've ever heard from a clinician was the concept of normalizing suicide, like talking about it. Normalizing it in the sense that it exists. It has always been perceived as the elephant in the room, but it's a very real thing. We need to normalize it in the context of it is an option, but it shouldn't be your first.

For someone to get to that point in their own mental health.

Also, where it becomes the first option. It sucks.

If it has ever crossed your mind, talk to somebody, please. Don't let that plague your thoughts as it being a viable solution because it's not a good solution. I'm not a mental clinician. I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm not that, but I will be someone that listens and has been somebody that listened to someone that has brought that up. I did my best to communicate that like, "You're talking about some pretty serious statements here. I need to know if these are legitimate things or if you're just popping off the gas right now. First of all, you're a friend of mine. Second of all, I need to do something about that other than just let this conversation end with me and you."

That person assured me that, "Other people know about it. You're not the only one." I've been there and tried to help, be a good friend and a good listener, and not try to solve their problems, which is something I should try to do in my own life with marriage and everything. You're a firefighter. What do we do? We try to solve everybody's problems.

You're a professional problem solver.

We're not going to solve every problem. Just be a good listener in your marriage and stuff like that. How come you can do it here, but you can't do it on your own? That's communication 101. I get it. You're full all the time, for my wife that I'm not listening. That's how it is. She's always right. Sometimes I'm not listening. Not to make light of this situation or discussion, but it's so true. It sucks that that has become such a normal thing. You got to ask yourself why. People are finding themselves in a very dark and alone place to think that that is the only option. There are so many avenues for help. If they get pushed to that point, they're not going to seek that out.

I'm not saying that money is going to fix that. Paychecks aren't going to fix that, but there is a certain aspect and flow of how things have gotten to that point. Maybe if they can take a look back at, "Why are people leaving these agencies in record numbers? Why are they seeking success elsewhere? How do you retain the folks that you still have?" As I said, hats off to those guys that are going to grind it out because that's who they are and that's what they want to do.

I would've been right there with them. I wouldn't have had a choice. I don't know what else I would've done. Go swing a hammer? I did a little bit of construction when I was doing seasonal time early on in my career. I do that or maybe try my hand at serving a business or something, but I'm not an educated man. I don't have a college degree. I started looking at those other things, "What else would I do?" I enjoyed that job. That's why I miss it so much. That's why I try to stay involved with it as much as I can. Anything that's going to help with what Grassroots and what NFFE is pushing for, that's who's representing the people that are still there. I have friends that are still there. The conversations that I have with them and some of the challenges that I was facing when I was there are getting worse.

Now, there are less qualified individuals with less experience being promoted into positions that maybe they shouldn't be in, but the job is there and they're going to take it. Now, they're making the decision. They'll get there. They might not have all the experience to lean on, but they're going to get it one way or another because they're being put in that position to go out and make those decisions. That shouldn't be taken lightly. That's a privilege. It's a serious leadership position when you're out there making decisions for the fate of people that are entrusted to your care.

Literally, lives are at risk.

It’s all kinds of different things, financial, equipment, and all this. As we said earlier, it’s a very gnarly environment. It’s the recognition that it's time and it needs to happen. Max from NFFE, Lucas from Grassroots, and everybody that is supporting them in this coordinated effort has been there before. Not to say it all came from somewhere. That's where I started getting into it a little bit into the history of all that and some of the folks that I know. I'm in this middle generation of these founding forefathers if you will.

It's all because of the hotshots getting involved and being involved with all these things. There are some different entities that came before these. NFFE has been doing its thing, but now they have Max. It's his priority and they have someone representing wildland fire. He's got Yvette who's doing awesome things for them. Now, they're both pulling from the same end. They were both going for the same thing, but one of them is on one flank and the other one is on the other flank. That's great, but where are they tying in? Now they both have some coordinated things to work towards together and they're both anchored in now working towards the same thing instead of coming from different directions on it.

We've established command even.

That's what's important. They both have different lanes. How did I get roped into that? I don't know. I think it's through relationships and friends that I stay in touch with. Shane is probably going to hear this. He's this retired mastermind behind this whole thing. Me and him talk. He cares too. A lot of us that are no longer there still care. We still give a shit and we always will. We want to see people moving it in the right direction to get it done. That's the goal.

At the end of the day, even you are pretty far removed from the Federal wildland context. The important thing is to have supporters like you outside of Federal service. In all honesty, if this goes through, the rising tide is going to raise all ships. Now, the state departments have to compete with their wildland programs. The contractors have to compete with their wildland programs and all these other third-party or tertiary fallout things that are going to happen. It's going to benefit a lot more than just the Federal wildland firefighters. I honestly do.

I think so. At the end of the day, these things happen, whether it'd be a fire, hurricane, tornadoes, or earthquake. We haven't had one of those in a while, knock on wood. We all got to be working together. That's what it comes down to. Not everybody is going to have the expertise in everything, but a lot of people are going to show up and are going to be able to do what they can do to help out that situation.

When you look at some of the major events in wildland fire, it's a great example of that. There are so many different things where people come together to complete the objective of helping people out. That's what it's all about. We've been all the way to the moon and back. For some reason in our new society, people have trouble going across the streets to introduce themselves to their neighbors. That's a reality of what's going on in our shame on COVID.

That's going to come to a disclaimer, but it did. It separated so much. How do we get things back? I don't even want to say normalcy, like what's normal before? It'd be good to start moving things in a good direction. This is how we're solving the world's problems right now. We talk about stuff like this at work and the coffee table and stuff. As long as people care enough to look out for one another, then we'll find ourselves moving in a good place and a good direction.

Just continue to keep looking out for one another. Hopefully, all of the efforts that we put forth will put us in a good position to move on to the next phase, whatever it is. The people that follow us and move into the positions that we hold and the jobs that we do will be in a good position to carry it forward. That's all it is. We only have so much time on this earth. We might as well do some good while we're here.

With that being said, it's important that we recognize the fact that it's our job as firefighters to build upon the foundation that was laid before us in the service. Grassroots, NFFE, what you're doing, and all of these are interconnected with the community. It speaks volumes. It's our job and we're going to keep pushing that needle. We're going to keep doing it.

I'm excited to see how all this, I don’t want to say concludes because it'll keep evolving and moving, but it's cool to finally see some traction and some people in some positions to have answers. A lot of the time, they get answered politically because that's what they do. It’s cool to see it get to that level and have a direct line and cut the crap. Let's iron out some things and get something done. What is your direction to the leaders and the policymakers? How are you going to do your part to ensure that there is some change moving and developing a new climate for the next 20 to 30 years? Ultimately, that's what needs to happen.

When you look at Mel and you look at all those people that are retiring. Even in training, this got brought up to me the other day. The Mel-BuildUp are not Baby Boomers, but it’s all that big Mel-BuildUp. You look at the implications of COVID and that training gap that got shut down for two years. All these people now are not going to be able to promote within those next levels. They're going to retire because they're going to time out. Because of that big training freeze, they'll never move up to that next level. Now, there's this huge gap of qualified individuals to be able to move into these positions. There are areas down here that don't have battalion chief position staff. You know what I mean? Why is that?

That's another thing too. The people that did stick around are still there and have those slides. They're bailing and jumping ship to go into different agencies.

How do you fix this mass exodus? It is what it is, but you got to figure something out. At some point, people got to answer to that. The people that are in those positions are going to be held accountable for what reason? In this example, things should be going uphill. The ramifications and the consequences should be looked towards uphill, not going back downhill. Those first-year dudes are going to have to now eat it and they had nothing to do with it. There's this mass hiring going on. That's great. You're filling seats. I'm not here to talk about it. My opinion is my opinion. That's it. I can't solve those problems, but I am going to support those that are looking at the bigger picture because I agree with what they're going after.

Ultimately, at the end of the day. Some of those things, I wish would've happened when I was still there. When I look at a lot of guys that did leave and where they're at now, I know that they're in a place where they feel healthier at least mentally. That's important because you got to take care of yourself first if you want to help anybody else. If you're not in a good place, then you're going to be detrimental.

You're no good to anybody. We'll see how it pans out though. There's a big broad topic that we could talk about for hours on this one, but I do get to take off here in a little bit. Let's get you back on the show and let's dive into this. Maybe we can get Grassroots, Max, you, and everybody on the show. That'd be cool to talk about it.

I think that was the goal. Here's this idea guy. That's me here.

It's good. It was beneficial.

I wish I would've been able to go up there and hang out.

You can't control the weather.

Life is busy. Thanks for the invite. I appreciate it. This was good. Anybody that tunes in, thanks for tuning in. If you guys are interested, reach out to us. This organization is here for everyone and anyone that wants to do something. It's yours just as much as it's ours.

I appreciate what you're doing. I love what you're doing, Anthony. Thank you for being on the show. I appreciate it.

Thank you. Have a good day.

You too. See you guys.

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There we go, ladies and gentlemen. Another episode of The Anchor Point is in the books with my good friend, Anthony Powers from the Hotshot Up Foundation. They are a kickass cause and I am all about having these organizations exist as we definitely need it as a community. It doesn't matter if you are stepping a foot in the black as a contractor, a fed, a state, or a parky. These folks are out there making a difference for the people that have unfortunately paid the ultimate sacrifice for our careers. It's a hell of a thing that these organizations exist. Without them, it's not like we make a lot of money, so our families are going to suffer. We never know when our ticket is going to be punched.

With that being said, if you want to go out and support a good cause, you can go over to www.HotshotUp.com. You can find out more about the nonprofit that they're doing, the work that they've put in, and the In Honor Of section of their website where they have all of their past events and who they've been dedicated to. It's pretty impressive stuff. In fact, 2023's Hotshot Up Tournament and Hotshot Up Foundations In Honor Of is going to go to Stockton Fire Department Captain Max Fortuna and Craig Interagency Hotshot Collin Hagan, who both passed in 2022 in the line of duty.

I know this topic is hard and it's rough. We do have a dangerous career. We're lucky that we have folks out there in case the worst-case scenario does happen to support the families that we leave behind. With that, I do say go over to www.HotshotUp.com to check it out and please consider a donation. They're a wonderful organization and there are other organizations out there that do amazing work as well. Go check them out. You know who they are.

As for the rest of you, I hope everybody is gearing up for the season. I hope everybody is ready and we'll see what the crystal ball has. I hope everybody is doing well. A special shout-out to our sponsors. We've got MYSTERY RANCH, purveyors of the finest damn packs in the fire game. Go over to www.MysteryRanch.com and check out the backbone series where you can get your hands on one of those thousand dollars scholarships. We've got Hotshot Brewery. Kickass coffee for a kickass cause. If you want to get your hands on the best coffee in the fire game, go over to www.HotshotBrewery.com and check it out.

We got the A.S.S. Movement. My boy Booze over there is spreading the word about bearing your turds. If you want to get a discount on all of your A.S.S. Movement merch, use the code ANCHORPOINTASS10 at checkout over at www.TheFireWild.com. Look for the A.S.S. Movement. Last but not least, we've got the American Wildfire Experience, aka The Smokey Generation. They are awesome. Bethany, you have a kickass organization over there. Keep it up. If you want to find out more about the oral history-telling project, go over to www.WildfireExperience.org where you can find all of it. You all know the drill. Stay safe. Stay savage. Peace.

Important Links

• www.MysteryRanch.com

• Wildland Firefighter Foundation

• www.HotshotBrewery.com

• www.TheFireWild.com/The-A-S-S-Movement

• www.WildfireExperience.org

• www.HotshotUp.com

• US Hotshot Association

• Eric Marsh Foundation

• GoFundMe

• California Community Foundation

• Firefighters First Credit Union

• NFFE Wildland

• PREP and DEFEND

• Topa Topa

• Red Engine Brewing

• HotShotUp501c3@gmail.com

• "The Game Has Changed" - Episode 100 with Nelda St. Clair and Ron Bollier