The Wildland Wellness Foundation With Melissa Moore And Thomas Wurm
Melissa Moore is a former Wildland firefighter, Hotshot, Smokejumper, and the founder of the Wildland Wellness Foundation - an organization that specializes in healing mental health issues through ancestral medicines...
Thomas Wurm is the founder of Mountain Mind Tricks - an alternative therapy and mental health optimization practice that specializes in NLP, hypnosis, Mental-Emotional Release, and Hawaiian healing arts...
Together, they make the dream team of alternative mental health practitioners when it comes to utilizing ancestral medicines in combination with other mind, body, and spiritual healing practices...
Here's the mission statement from the Wildland Wellness Foundation:
"We are working to create a new, CONSCIOUS fire culture by actively supporting and educating the Wildland firefighter individually through their healing journey, and encouraging internal leadership. We hope to impact the Wildland fire community in such a way that not only our suicide rate is reduced, but that our community leaders are empowered to make sound decisions in our rapidly changing fire environment through self-knowledge, awareness, and cultivated presence".
Here is a little about Thomas:
He is a Master Practitioner of NLP, Hypnosis, Mental-Emotional Release®️, Ancient Hawaiian Healing Arts -
You can find his works at the following links:
Conscious Fire Culture Podcast
Six Minutes For Excellence on Amazon
Ayahuasca and other hallucinogenic substances are a powerful, and potentially very beneficial, means of therapy under the right circumstances... But, these are ancient substances that absolutely need to be treated with respect.
I will say that this route of healing may seem a little "far fetched" for some, and may not be for everyone... However, I can say that if this kind of thing is "up your alley", and you are open minded enough to experience this journey - By all means, please seek the Wildland Wellness Foundation out for more information!
Stay safe, stay savage...
Enjoy!
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The Wildland Wellness Foundation With Melissa Moore And Thomas Wurm
I hope everybody's doing well. It looks like Region Four is starting to rear its ugly head and AK is still in the business. For all crews that are cycling in and out of AK, hopefully, you get some well-deserved rest. For those folks coming out and the folks that are going in, bring lots of socks, underwear and bug spray. Buckle up. It's going to be a gnarly season. We got Region Four popping off here too. Be safe out there and be ready for it. It's going to be pretty gnarly here pretty quickly.
On this show, we are going to sit down and talk with Thomas Wurm and Melissa Moore. We're going to talk about mental health and some alternative therapies that are available and exclusive to the Wildland firefighting community out there. Melissa Moore has developed the Wildland Wellness Foundation. It's an organization out of Mexico and they're going to have some retreats specifically for Wildland firefighters.
This therapy is not going to be for everybody but I do know that some very well-respected folks out there have gone to the retreat down there in Mexico and they've cleared their mind. They think that it was one of the most profound and beneficial experiences that they have experienced in history, especially when it comes to mental health.
Back in the day, I introduced Thomas Wurm and Melissa to each other. Thomas was previously on the show. He's been on the show twice and he runs Mountain Mind Tricks. Melissa and Thomas have teamed up to make this whole Wildland Wellness Foundation and these retreats bigger, better, faster, stronger and available with more sessions. It's pretty interesting stuff. It's not going to be for everyone. Fair warning. If this is not your jam, then it's not for you but we're all those folks that are interested in it. By all means, hit these two up. Without further ado, I'd like to introduce Melissa Moore and Thomas Wurm. Welcome to the show.
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In this show, I've got Melissa Moore and Thomas Wurm. This is your first time on the show, Melissa. Thomas has been on twice.
Yeah, it's my first time.
Tell us a little bit about yourselves.
Here’s a quick synopsis of my fire career. It began in 2003 and worked for a state protection agency, Walker Range at Crescent, Oregon. In my second year, I got an apprentice program. In 2004, I did that up on the Okanogan-Wenatchee and I was in fire until 2018. In between, I spent five years on Winema and a few years as an engine captain. In my last fire season, I had the opportunity to detail as a rookie with the Redmond Smokejumpers. I got to jump some fires that year. I resigned from the Forest Service in April of 2019.
I was in Academy 28 and I did a bunch of logistics and academy coordinator. That's how you and I met, Brandon. That's how I met a lot of the folks that are helping out with the retreats, Alicia, Alyssa and Ashley. The academy was a pretty huge extracurricular activity for me. I live in Mexico. I have to say that having a toddler and another baby on the waist is by far the craziest and most hardcore thing I've ever done.
It's wild. We had our second one. It gets a little intense at times so buckle up.
I've got a long, hard shift ahead of me. A yearlong shift that's going to be tough but it's all good. That's me in a nutshell.
Thomas?
I started with Fire in 2007 on a fuels crew in the Grand Teton. I did that for a couple of years. I moved around a lot from Idaho to Washington. I did a season up in Alaska mostly fuels, engines and helitack. I resigned in 2020. It was the big year and we have been focusing on Mountain Mind Tricks. Brandon, you reached out to me. You were like, “You got to meet up with Melissa. She's doing some cool stuff.” I did and the rest is history. I feel like Melissa and I are cosmic brothers and sisters. What we're doing with the retreats is so exciting. It’s such an expansion of my path and purpose. I’m so happy that Melissa's in my life.
I'm glad I get to introduce you two. With the Wildland Wellness Foundation, you two are spearheading that effort. Melissa, you started this pretty much.
When I resigned, I had this vision of an organization for wildland firefighters that was dedicated solely to mental health, providing discounted or free mental health care for wildland firefighters that need it and providing access to alternative healing methods for processing trauma. That was a vision that I had in 2019. I sat on it for a while and then 2021, in the spring was the first time I participated in a ceremony down here.
Wildland Wellness Foundation: There was this vision of an organization for wildland firefighters that was dedicated solely to mental health.
I was then able to participate in a couple more. At that point, I was like, “It'd be amazing to bring folks down to be able to have this same experience that I had. I experienced some deep healing and permanent perspective changes and things to add to my practice. I spoke with you. I was coming out of having a baby and everything. You then connected me with Thomas. Everything started falling together really easily with practitioners down here.
Thomas helped get the website going. We were able to offer a lot of peer support and we still want to offer peer support throughout the summer if people need it. The foundation is just beginning. I've geared back a little bit since I got pregnant but the foundation has been laid. We're going to keep expanding from here and you bringing Thomas and I together was a great active alchemy because it was through that that everything started to unfold. Also, getting some other people involved in the project that believe in it. I believe that it's cosmically ordained. I was the one that got the ball rolling.
You had an idea and expanded on it. Nothing's built out of thin air. No one person can't do everything. We need help and we need people that believe in a cause and when they come together, I don't believe in coincidence. I don't think there's anything such as coincidence. If you manifest something good, naturally, it'll attract the right people and typically, it'll flourish.
That's exactly what's happening. It's been super smooth. I'll be working in the next years to get things more legit like an official nonprofit status here in Mexico. A lot of things for me personally are on hold with my pregnancy, the birth and focusing on my family. Once I crawl out of the newborn fog, I'll be able to hit the ground running again and get the foundation more legitimized for the future.
It’s pretty impressive work that you've done, especially with back-to-back pregnancies. That’s no small feat. It's difficult. We had our second one so I understand the challenges that come with that.
Thomas has taken the ball and ran with it. He's added to the team. We have a bunch of firefighter supporters that are going to be coming down with these retreats, which I'm so excited about because that's exactly what I had envisioned. I'm so grateful because when something is aligned, things happen easily. Thomas has taken the ball and ran with it for these next retreats.
He expanded our team and the menu of what we're offering and built in some new aspects to it that are valuable. There were a lot of things that I did by virtue of it being the first time. I made a lot of mistakes the first time with our first retreat. Thomas is building on that and I'm excited about what we're doing this winter.
The Wildland Wellness Foundation is right up your alley, Thomas. You run Mountain Mind Tricks and specialize in NLP and these alternative therapies. It's the perfect mesh with what you're doing down there with ancestral medicine and all those practices in Mexico. You're networking with all the right people in all the right places to come together and make it better. I'm pretty pumped about that. As far as what the Wildland Wellness Foundation specializes in, what do they specialize in? What is their claim to fame so to speak?
In January 2022, we had probably the first ever all Wildland firefighter Ayahuasca ceremonies. We had two Ayahuasca ceremonies. The participants had combo and yopo, which both prepared the mind and body for Ayahuasca. It was delivered by a spiritual brother of mine, a practitioner that's indigenous here from Mexico. Also, our support team is all here from Mexico like the medicine people.
To my knowledge, it was the first time that a group of Wildland firefighters that didn't know each other came to Mexico and sat together in that way. They experienced a deep community healing event where a new cosmic family was built out of that. People were able to work through the trauma of losing fire bros and sisses or losing loved ones in the line of duty.
After hours, people were able to work through sexual assault trauma. It's not a magic pill. That's pretty much other than peer support. All that I've done with the foundation is the retreat and I'm pretty sure that nobody's done it before. That's what we're offering. It is the same recipe with the same practitioners. We have a couple more supporters and then a sound healing retreat in Oregon. That's going to be the first iteration of that.
If you check out our Instagram, you can see some of the testimonials of the participants from the retreat and some photos and stuff. Here in Mexico, these methods of healing and medicines are revered and taken seriously. People still have a connection to the type of healing in these older ways. That's what I've experienced and it's helped me to become a better parent. It's helped me in very many ways. I don't have panic attacks anymore since I started working with the medicines. Here in Mexico, it's legal.
It's also regulated from my understanding as well but not just anybody can do this. You have to have certain credentials to be a practitioner of this.
Something that is still very much a part of the community and values is this connection to ancestral wisdom. That is our main claim to fame. Who knows what it's going to be in a few years but that's pretty much all we've done or what I've done.
My favorite thing about this is the medicine is so amazing. We have such a holistic way that we bring the practitioners in because we had an herbalist that comes in. He has specialties for integration dates. We have a massage therapist that is working with the body because as you work with the trauma in your mind, there are things in the body that need to move around.
I was there doing hypnosis and mental-emotional release on the integration days. There's this variety of integration and also, professional mental health practitioners are involved. There's the ancestral healing piece and then there's the professional mental health. There's the bodywork. On top of the integration, what makes this special is the holistic approach and also the integration and the follow-up that we are offering.
It's not just you go down for a ceremony and then go back to life. We want to help you integrate for up to 3 to 4 months. We want to follow up and see how you're doing. How can we help you even more because these experiences can be earth-shattering? They change your perspectives. It’s like, “How do we learn to take those lessons and carry them forward?”
I have had clients reach out to me that came from a retreat center in Peru, Ecuador or somewhere else and they're like, “I was laying there dying and there is nobody there to support me.” That's the opposite of what we're doing. We were almost one-on-one. There's almost one supporter for one participant. It's very unique in that way. Why this is so special? Wildland Firefighters-specific and the support is top-notch.
That's one thing too. For anybody out there who's allegedly done a heroic dose of hallucinogens, you need that support. Ayahuasca is one of those things where it's very powerful and often reality-breaking from my understanding. I've never done it before. I've never had that shamanistic guide with an Ayahuasca trip, which I know that you guys do as well but it's serious.
It's one of those things where a lot of people might have some apprehension about going down to a retreat. There are several other retreats like you were saying in different countries like Costa Rica and Peru. However, you got to be careful with that because I've heard some horror stories about it being a tourist trap where they get you super messed up on a very powerful hallucinogen that is very much to be respected.
They don't follow up with you. They don't guide you. You don't have anybody there for support. They don't have medical on staff in case you're having a panic attack or something like that or a hard time during the ceremony or the experience. It probably scares a lot of people because I've heard those horror stories but that's where you guys stand out. You offer the actual clinicians, the bodyworkers and the ancestral medicines. It's a complete package, mind, body, spirit and everything. It's safe as well.
The thing that grew out of it that I didn't anticipate as much is the number of connections of the participants afterward. We have a WhatsApp group called Cosmic Fire Family and people a few months later are messaging back and forth in there. They are tying in and talking about different challenges or when things are good too.
As it's growing, what's unique is the supporters for these next retreats, there are going to be quite a few Wildland Firefighters supporting the people that are participating. We're building a network and a family of folks in our community that are from all different backgrounds and areas to support each other. That's something else that is special.
It's not just a one-and-done thing too. It's one of those things where you have that continuous care, follow-up and all of that stuff. It's important to have, especially after a life-changing experience like that. Thomas, as far as these ancestral medicines, do you have any insight into how they work? Is it the reduction of ego? Do you have any insight about what it is that makes it so special and healing?
By no means I am a shaman or an expert in these medicines. I want to start with that. I do have personal experiences that have been life-transforming. The biggest thing is it allows you to dive deep into the unconscious mind. That's going to be my frame. You are going so deep into the unconscious mind. At that point, it turns into symbols. It's fractal geometry and the visions that we're having. It's the symbols or symbology of the trauma or new ways of thinking.
It's almost like you're stepping into a world of puzzles. The more you undo the puzzle, the more you rearrange it in your thinking and perspective. You're changing your neurology, like your nervous system. When you're done with the experience, you have a different way of thinking. You have a different perspective. What's so interesting is that it's not always a mental or emotional aspect. There are physical outcomes. Physical healing can happen.
Ancestral medicines allow you to dive deep into the unconscious mind. You're actually changing your neurology. When you're done with the experience, you have a different way of thinking.
I've had that happen to me personally. It touches on the spiritual, mental, emotional and physical bodies, which is why it's so profound. We look at a lot of the map studies going on with psilocybin, MDMA and PTSD in veterans, the actual clinical trials are explaining exactly what's going on. It's been so profound in the veterans that they're pushing hard to get that stuff legalized in the states with psychedelic-assisted therapy.
The key is having that support and follow-up. Also, having some therapeutic modality. If it's NLP, CBT with a therapist or EMDR, there has to be support. It’s because I feel like if there's no support, then you don't get the lessons in the best possible way. You don't allow them to sink as deep as they can to make a physical change in your life that's long-term or permanent. Medicine can do that but it's so much more integrative when we add in a modality.
I understand from the science perspective. We don't know a lot, specifically about psilocybin, why it heals the brain. We don't know why it makes you the capability to make repairs to neurons or make entirely new neural connections but it rewires your brain. Science can't explain why it does that yet but it’s proven. It's already out there on paper. It's legitimate stuff.
As you're saying with the psilocybin therapies and the MDMA therapies. There's another one out there. Ketamine clinics are rising in popularity as well. It's not for everybody but it's an alternative thing. It's one of those things where you're not going to know if it's helpful unless you try it and you are open to having one of those experiences.
Wildland Wellness Foundation: Ketamine is not for everybody, but you won’t know if it's helpful unless you try it.
It's not for everybody and that's so important. It’s if you are not a grounded person and you do have extreme anxiety that's on potentially a schizophrenic spectrum and those kinds of mental disorders or if you're on medications. With medications, we have to be very serious and careful about the weaning process and interactions. If there is a mental disorder going on, then it may not be the right fit for you because it can exacerbate those things sometimes.
Sometimes, it can fix it. It depends on who you are and how it's going to react in your nervous system but it's so important to know, “Is this right for me? Do I need to talk to a doctor or my therapist?” Talk to your family because that's a big thing. Your family needs to be on board with these changes because if they're not, you're going to come back and it's going to be hard to integrate. It's not for everybody. If it is for you, as a study shows, it may be the most powerful experience of your entire life. That's very common in the reports.
I read some of the testimonials from not only yours but others as well, legitimate organizations that practice shamanistic medicine. It's a profoundly life-changing experience, like addressing traumas that they have bottled up and forgotten about from their childhood. They are able to address that. One of the analogies that I thought was a pretty good way of explaining these journeys is it's like having a cluttered desk.
It’s like your office space or work desk. You have a crap collector at your house where you throw random stuff and deal with it later. They were saying that it gives you the ability to look at this desk, sit down, organize it and take this piece of paper. “I don't need that. I need to pay that bill now. Let's take care of this a little bit later,” and so on. It's like cleaning out your mental desk of clutter.
It's a cleansing agent for your mind, body and spirit. It’s very powerful. I'd love to hear Melissa's thoughts on this too.
I have lots of theories about why these molecules work like they do like psilocybin and DMT. Our bodies produce them naturally. When you ingest them from these plants or our animal relatives like sapito, the DMT and serotonin that you produce naturally can build up in your brain and fit into receptors that aren't normally stimulated and are left over from our eons of evolution.
The stimulation of those receptors can help awaken ancestral memory. By ancestral memory, I mean back to the fact that we come from the stars. For me, I have a long history of psilocybin since I was eighteen years old. I used to go pick psilocybin on the Oregon Coast. Ayahuasca was something I learned about also when I was eighteen.
It was always a dream of mine to be able to participate in one of those ceremonies. I have but only once. Mostly, what I've worked with here and what I've had profound results with is sapito which is from the Colorado Desert toad, Bufo Alvarius. I was introduced to it by my chiropractor/acupuncturist because every time he worked on my back, I would start crying uncontrollably.
I shared with him some of my trauma revolving around sexual assault. He told me I carry this medicine from my grandfather and we're going to have a ceremony. He was like, “You could come. It would help.” That was the first time I had the Bufo and that's five DMT that you smoke it. There are songs, prayers and things that happen during the ceremony.
I experienced it as you said. My mind was a cluttered desk and it got rearranged. I found afterwards and continued to work with the medicines, the Ayahuasca and more with sapito over the course of a year almost. For me, it became very much part of my daily routine and how I do things to observe my mind rather than to be lost swimming in it. It’s for me to be able to snap into observer mode and be like, “Yes, this piece on the desk is out of place but I don't need to worry about that now. I can worry about it later.”
Also, observe what's happening in my mind regularly as opposed to being lost in it all the time. For me, that's probably one of the hugest changes in mentally having a lot more quiet up there. I've had suicidal ideation my whole life and that's all but gone away for me. I've had anxiety attacks for much of my life and I've only had a couple in the last few years.
When we're working with these medicines, they say that you heal 7 generations back and 7 generations forward. I found an abuelo here who works with Hikuri, which is peyote. He is a Wixárika which is known as the Huichol people here. He learned all these things from his grandmother who was a curandera. He carries the peyote, sapito, DMT and combo.
I've been working with him but not since I've been pregnant. He'll have some medicine and then work on your body. He can see where the energy is trapped. Through my experiences with him, like the sapito, which is five DMTs, super high intensity and short duration, it is the only time I've ever lost my concept of self or space and time. I've never broken with reality or this plane that goes into the quantum realm other than that double dose of sapito that he gave me.
When he worked on my body, afterward I felt like the epigenetic suffering had been snipped from my genetic code and released. I felt so much lighter. With the ceremonies afterward, I was like, “I didn't suffer. I didn't have to go through that again.” The purging and the things that I experienced and letting go, there is something ethereal but very real about working with somebody who has used these medicines for Mechica.
He's been using it for getting these medicines for 35, 40 years. Learning these ancestral ways to deeply heal people and free them of the genetic suffering that they've inherited might sound crazy but that's what I experienced at least with the sapito. With the abuelito and Ayahuasca, I also experienced very deep healing. I didn't go into any other realms, dimensions or anything like that.
I danced the whole time but I had a lot of valuable wisdom delivered to me and a valuable perspective that has changed how I live my life and how it affected my daily practice because I have a daily practice to stay sane like breathing and practice observing what's going on through my mind. That's how I think these medicines can help. They're not a magic pill like, “I'm going to be fixed and cured,” but they can help you to understand more deeply why we do the things that we do, how layered exists reality and how there's always a different perspective to be peeled back.
These medicines have been around long before recorded history. This is ancient stuff. The use of peyote, psilocybin or DMT has been pretty much recorded back way long ago. This stuff is not necessarily new. It seems like our ancestors are probably onto something. It wouldn't be around unless there was something beneficial or profound to be given to you from these medicines.
It's a lineage that's been passed down. Unfortunately, there are some people that are taking advantage. As stated before, you have to be careful who you receive these medicines from. Mechica, my cosmic abuelo who I work with here, Danny, our practitioner and all of our medicine people are never going to tell you that they're medicine people. They're never going to tell you, “I'm a shaman and a healer.”
It’s based on the tradition though. It's been passed down from generation to generation to when we were crawling out of caves.
There are a lot of people that are running around that are giving medicine. All you have to do is get on Instagram and you can see all these spiritual gurus that are popping up all over the place. It is one of those things that I feel super blessed because I feel like I've found the right people for me to receive the medicine. I feel so good about them that I want to bring other people to them but it's not for everybody and it's not something you want to do lightly or with the wrong people. You should have a lot of intention and be very discriminatory about the folks that you work with.
Wildland Wellness Foundation: When working with ancestral medicines, you should have a lot of intention and be very discriminatory about the folks that you work with.
What’s crazy is these plants exist pretty much all over the world. No matter where humans or animals are, some plant that possesses these very powerful hallucinogenic properties exist, whether that be psilocybin, mushrooms, peyote and the Ayahuasca plant. All of these things exist. I wonder if there's a connection to human evolution. There is a theory out there called the Stoned Ape Theory. It’s why there was this doubling of the size of the human brain in a very condensed short timeframe. I'm wondering if we as humans evolved with these fungi and hallucinogenic plants and it made us who we are because we figured it out.
There's a whole podcast of Joe Rogan and Paul Stamets that they go into that pretty deeply. I like the way Paul explains that. The jumping consciousness is so explainable in our background. I've just come to this realization. I'm sure you've heard of cordyceps. They're all in our supplements. The classic example is the ants will eat the mycelium, go into their nest and walk around all crazy. They'll then explode with this mush that comes out of their head sprays pores and infects everybody.
From the psilocybin point of view, my experiences and what I know about it, this is what the mushrooms are doing in some ways and along with Ayahuasca. They're infecting us with this higher consciousness and we're spreading it out in the world. It's from love. It's beauty. It's healing on a collective unconscious level, which is cool.
Ancestral medicines infect us with a higher consciousness and we're spreading it out in the world. It's healing on a collective unconscious level.
It's wild. Speaking back to the Paul Stamets conversation that he had on The Joe Rogan Experience, he has a movie out called Fantastic Fungi. For anybody out there that's reading, watch that movie. It is incredible. As far as the retreats go, these are coming up here pretty soon. You have 2 scheduled in Oregon and 2 scheduled in Mexico. Let's talk about that a little bit and what these are all about.
They're two wildly different healing protocols. I'm not familiar with it. I'm uninitiated. Apologies for my naivety but they're wild different programs. You have two sessions of each. One here stateside and one there in Mexico. What are we going to experience? For the people that are interested in signing up for these, what are we going to be doing with these?
Let’s focus on Mexico and frame it this way. There are five phases of change. We've got to have some preparation. There's got to be some foundational work of, “Are we preparing the mind and body correctly? Are we doing some meditations, journaling and setting the right intentions?” We got to have a foundation. Also, there's the release work and ceremony. There are medicines that come in and talk about everything we talked about.
Also, there's creating a vision and a goal. There's motivation for the future and then it's all about taking action focus or the integration. That's the big picture. When they come down to Mexico, there's going to be almost a one-on-one practitioner per participant. There are multiple medicines. As Melissa mentioned, there's the combo, which is, the frog venom that cleanses your body. It’s very intense.
There's the yopo, which is more of a snuff of the Ayahuasca. There's the Ayahuasca ceremonies and those are all very intense experiences where you're going deep into the unconscious and unraveling trauma. You're unraveling negative emotions and limiting beliefs about yourself. In the integration process during the retreat and after, we're helping you choose how you want to rewire your brain.
How do you want to live your life? How do you want to feel and think daily? There's so much support with therapy, hypnosis and mental-emotional release. There are a lot of mental health pieces to this and then the follow-up. They get 2 one-on-one follow-ups and then there are also 4 group integration calls that are included in your retreat. It's not just you go to the retreat and you're done. It's a long process throughout the whole winter while we're following up with you and seeing how you're doing.
Last time, there were a lot of people that followed up one-on-one for a couple of months, specifically with a practitioner. What's also great is you have access to this network of practitioners. Lots of hypnotherapy was done, MER sessions and all those things. If you're looking for a change in your life, this could be an avenue for you. It could be a big change. That's what I want to stress.
I would love to hear some of Melissa's thoughts on this but the big thing is you have to be ready and willing to let go. You got to be a cause at some point. You got to be like, “Maybe I did create some of these problems in my life. Somehow at the unconscious level, I did create this because if we are at cause and we're willing, that's when we're allowed to make big changes in our life.” That's in a nutshell.
What about the Oregon ones? Are those hashed out yet or are they still in the planning phase?
We've got dates. We've got two sessions. It's very focused on sound. The biggest thing is this may not be the best platform to talk about it very in-depth and that's okay. If people go to the website and they book a call, we can talk about the Oregon stuff in depth on a private channel. With the sound retreats, our practitioner is a master of sound.
She uses sound to undo a lot of the trauma in the nervous system. The sound portion of her retreats is out of this world. It’s unbelievably powerful and healing. That practitioner is a therapist as well. Those sound retreats have a little bit more of NLP. There are going to be a lot more Huna and Hawaiian shamanism involved. There is chanting and singing. There's sound and breathwork. There are all sorts of stuff going on in those retreats. It’s very powerful and those are a little bit shorter. They're about three days. It's different and similar in some ways.
It’s the same destination of healing or outcome but two different experiences. When are these happening? These retreats are in January 2023 from Mexico. I didn't get the Oregon retreats when those were scheduled.
We've got November 2022 in Mexico and December 2022 in Oregon. January 2023 in Mexico and February 2023 in Oregon. We are flip-flopping every month. We got four in a row.
You guys got your work cut out for you. It's got to be a lot of planning.
We got a lot of planning to do. Both venues are set up and the venue in Mexico is out of this world. It's so beautiful. It's up in the mountains. It’s two hours from Puerto Vallarta. It’s a compound of healing, local food and beautiful views. It’s quiet. It’s the perfect place for the healing to happen.
Melissa sent me a couple of photos of the site there of the retreat and it's freaking gorgeous.
I’m so stoked about them.
With these retreats, a big question out there is, “Do I have to go get groceries or go down to the market?” What's the deal with that? Is it all-inclusive? From my understanding, it is.
You've got to fly into Mexico. You may need to stay one night on your own to settle from traveling and then we will be traveling altogether to the retreat center or the space. All the food and cooking is done for you. Also, all the lodging. Every single detail is taken care of for you. All you have to do is show up and have your experience. Also, be open to the healing, the work and the practitioners. It’s one night of lodging on your own and everything else is included.
Is it the same thing for Oregon as well?
In Oregon, everything will be included but you will have to get lodging nearby on your own. There's a beautiful spot for lodging. We can talk about it over the phone. It's going to be beautiful too.
It sounds like this is going to be very restorative and healing for a lot of people. I've spoken to a couple of people that have gone to the Mexico retreats previously. They said it was life-changing. What is the compass, a path or a sentiment to what this does for people? We've all confirmed it. It's not for everybody but if you're open to it, by all means, go for it.
If you're ready and willing, we want you. We're putting out the call so please reach out. We want to help you. If you're interested, please reach out to me or Melissa.
Here’s another question I have for you. Is this a selective group event where you choose who goes or is it a first come, first serve? How does that work?
There is some screening. There are some health screens. Are you on medications? It's okay for medications. There's a pretty lengthy protocol to be safe during ceremonies. The big thing is we're looking for health concerns. Do you have a heart condition or any health conditions that could be unsafe for you in the ceremony? Are there big psychiatric disorders involved?
With those kinds of things, we may say, “This may not be a good fit for you.” There will be consultations, “Is this a good fit? What's going on in your life?” We've got to talk to you about that and then there'll be another call with one of the shamans like, “Yes, this person is good.” There is a screening process. Yes, we are selective and we want everybody to come. The biggest thing is we want to make sure you're safe.
These things are not to be taken lightly. These are practices and medicines that need to be respected. Your safety and health are going to be your number one priority there.
Melissa, did you have something?
It's a matter of as long as people are healthy enough to come. As Thomas said, go through the medically supervised weaning process with any medications that are MAOI inhibitors that are contraindication with Ayahuasca. However, it is a first come, first serve thing. There are limited spots. You have twelve spots in 2022. Is that right, Thomas?
Yeah.
It’s a limited spot and opportunity to get into the group but that expands a little bit. If there is interest at all, do a little bit of research and reading. Talk to family members or talk about the experience. The main thing is being open and having a solid intention. Taking the preparation ahead of time seriously will help the process to be smooth. Our previous retreat was so smooth. The participants didn't suffer.
You hear these stories about people going to the ceremony, screaming, crying and going crazy. We didn't experience that. There were some phases with the different medicines but by and large, when we had our Ayahuasca ceremonies, because of the preparation with the combo, the yopo and the preparation that people did ahead of time with their diet and the mental and emotional preparation, it was very smooth.
That was the amazing thing about it. People weren't throwing up everywhere or screaming. That's what we're going for. We want people to be able to integrate all of the pieces. That's why we have so many clinicians that you're not going to find anyplace else that is helping support the body and the mind through the process.
The last retreat was so smooth and beautiful. There were so many moments when Melissa and I would look at each other and be like, “We did this.” I can't believe this is happening. This divine guidance has helped us make this happen and we look at each other and start crying. We cried and sobbed out of joy. I don't know if I've ever cried that much out of joy for a week straight. The energy was so palpable and big.
With the energy that comes in with these medicines and the practitioners we have, there's only space for love, light and healing. That's our intention. Our practitioners are so in alignment. I don’t know if Ayahuasca is ever an easy, smooth ride but it's much easy. We have the right intentions, practitioners and diets. It's safe. It's awesome.
Ayahuasca may never be an easy, smooth ride, but with the right intentions, the right practitioners, and the right diets, it's awesome.
I'll add one thing that we didn't talk about that we did at the retreat that was equally as important as the medicines. The participants at the end participated in a sweat lodge that Mechica poured, the Abuelo I was talking about. That was a powerful way to end the retreat. Receiving the medicine of the inipi of the sweat lodge and those teachings, going in there and having a physical experience or maybe of discomfort but all the participants would say that it was as profound as the other ceremonies that we held. They'll be doing that with these retreats also, the ones in Mexico.
One thing that stood out about the way you run your retreats is these are very powerful things and medicines. You don't just go from 0 to 100. You ramp up slowly and then it's the big thing at the end. You can't dive head-first into something like this. It's going to break you. You're not going to be prepared for it.
There's an organization, a glide path up and out. One of my favorite things about our practitioner, Danny, is that he is one of the most well-read people I've ever met in all the religions, philosophy, quantum mechanics and all these different spiritualities. When he speaks, it's so captivating. He's teaching and opening you up. He's guiding you into this experience in such a slow, gentle way.
He was a public speaker for a long time so his presentation of medicine is so significantly different than I've ever experienced because of his knowledge and the way he ties it into some Daoist philosophy and then some Trinity with Christianity and something Muslim. It's like, “This is so cool.” We're talking about all the philosophies of the world. It is a spiritual retreat in that sense. That is important. There's that container of philosophy, healing and all cultures too.
It's even furthermore impressive that you have so many well-qualified participants. Not only the staff but as well as the people that are experiencing this journey as well. It's pretty cool to see this unfold and become bigger and better. I'm impressed and blown away by what you guys have done.
Thank you. We appreciate that.
As far as getting more information and finding out where you can sign up, where you can go and what this is all about, how do we get ahold of you?
The big thing is WildlandWellnessFoundation.com. Go there. Check out the website and the retreats. All you got to do is schedule a free consultation and we'll get on the phone, chat and go from there. Let’s get you signed up.
You can also send a DM to the Instagram pages. For the foundation, I’ve got Wildland Wellness Foundation @WildlandWellnessFoundation and also @WildlandFireMedicineCircle. You could also send a DM through there and I can help you get plugged in with who you need to talk to. Also, provide some peer support. Fire season is super kicked up. It could be pretty rough sometimes.
I want to throw it out there that I got two ears here. If people need to talk, even if it's not about the retreat, you can get at us at the DMs on Instagram and also in the future, we'll be planning retreats that are going to be even more diverse hoping to get some trauma-informed yoga and maybe some things going with Mechica, the abuelo down here. Stay tuned.
Thomas, you run Mountain Mind Tricks as well. That's your business aside from the Wildland Wellness Foundation. As far as your book, Six Minutes for Excellence, do want to give a little insight into where we can find you and what that's all about as well?
Six Minutes for Excellence: Leadership, Peak Performance, and Mindset in Wildland Firefighting
I've been getting a lot of good feedback on the book. If you follow me on Instagram @Mountain_Mind_Tricks, usually every Friday, there's a Six Minutes for Excellence bulletin. It’s very similar to Six Minutes for Safety but it's more focused on mental, emotional health and those kinds of things. Mountain Mind Tricks is expanding. We've got a couple of other practitioners in the business. There are new programs.
We've got the group coaching program starting in the winter of 2022. It'll be the second iteration of that focusing on expanding your situational awareness. We have alternative therapy and private sessions. We've got a new reset program for people that are injured or on light duty for the season. Let's go with the mind-body connection to help you heal faster and get back to the wild.
The biggest thing since we spoke last time is that I've expanded my training into a lot more energy work and Hawaiian shamanism. I do energy sessions. There's a bit more depth to my practice with the energy stuff, which I've been loving and so excited about. There is a lot going on in Mountain Mind Tricks and the foundation. We want to serve the Wildland firefighters. We love all of you so much as we've been there. We want to help you.
That's a pretty good synopsis of what you guys do, what these upcoming retreats are going to be and what they're all about. At the end of the show, I always try and give you the opportunity to give some shout-outs to some homies, heroes and mentors. Melissa, take it away. What have you got for us?
All my peeps, Jamal, Big Boy, Lorena Ochoa, Alan Thornton and Greg. He’s on Redmond Hot Jocks. They are the first people on my first engine crew ever. I always think about you guys specifically a lot. They are all my brothers and sisters out there. All of you are family. I've worked with you. I’ve seen you all over the country for many years. All my bros are on Winema. Nobody's on the same crew that I was when I was there still. For everybody, I'm always thinking about you. I'm not going to be out AD-ing as a line safety in 2022 but hopefully, I'll see you guys out on the line in 2023 or 2024. Keep your heads up and take care of each other.
Thomas, what have you got for us?
I've got a shout-out to Lesley Williams on Bridger-Teton. She helped so much in my rookie year in the first couple of seasons I was in the fire. I always go back to how much she helped me get through. The first year is always tough. You don't know how things work. Your feet are destroyed all the time. She helped me through that rookie season so much. She is such a loving person and a mentor. Thank you, Lesley Williams.
Thank you, guys, for coming to the show. Here's to a successful retreat. I hope you guys knock it out of the park. I have no doubt that you're going to. You're going to crush it and help some people along the way. I'm pumped for you guys and what you guys are doing. For anybody interested in this, go over to the Wildland Wellness Foundation or Mountain Mind Tricks. See what they're all about. Thomas, Melissa, thank you so much for being on the show. I appreciate it. Take care.
Thank you so much.
No worries. I will see you on the next one.
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There we go, ladies and gentlemen. Another episode of the show is in the books with Thomas Wurm and Melissa Moore. Thomas, you are from the Mountain Mind Tricks side of the house and Melissa, you have started and founded the Wildland Wellness Foundation. Your two forces combined have made those two powerful organizations in alternative therapy even better.
I'm so stoked for both of you. You two teamed up are going to conquer the world in regard to alternative therapies for mental health. Melissa, I do know that you have some sessions coming up. There are going to be 2 in Oregon and 2 in Mexico. If anybody's interested, go over to www.WildlandWellnessFoundation.com and check it out. If you're still stateside and don't have the opportunity to go to one of these retreats, by all means, hit up Thomas Wurm at Mountain Mind Tricks.
Also, you can find both of these folks on Instagram. It's pretty amazing what you guys are doing. It's not for everybody but I am super fascinated with these ancient medicines. They've been used by indigenous peoples across the entire world for practically millennia, maybe not millennia but for a long time. It's powerful stuff. It's very beneficial to some.
It might not be for everybody. It might be not your jam but if that's not the case, that's perfectly okay. If you want to find out more, go over to www.WildlandWellnessFoundation.com or check out Mountain Mind Tricks. Hit them up on the old Instagram. Thank you both for being on the show, explaining your mission and making this whole foundation bigger, better, faster and stronger. As for the rest of you, I hope you enjoyed the show. Stay safe out there. You all know the drill. Stay safe and savage. Peace.
Important Links
Thomas Wurm – Past Episode
@WildlandWellnessFoundation – Instagram
Paul Stamets – Past Episode on the Joe Rogan Experience
@WildlandFireMedicineCircle– Instagram
@Mountain_Mind_Tricks – Instagram
